100. What is the Co-Worker Compatibility of Type 2 and Type 8?

Do Type 2s and Type 8s get along at work? 

What should each type know about working with each? 

What should they know about working with someone of the same type? 

Join us for this co-worker compatibility conversation with Hannah, Sarah, and Julie from the Cincinnati Children's Hospital as we explore the strengths and challenges of their individual Enneagram types in the workplace and gain valuable insights on each type's communication style, collaboration preferences, and personal growth realizations.

When you listen in, you'll hear about:

• how Hannah, a Type 8, thrives in her strength while navigating vulnerability and being misinterpreted
• Sarah, a Type 2,  shares her empathetic nature and passion for helping others, even at her own expense at times.
• Julie, also a Type 8, and the importance of standing up for those without a voice and the impact of gender dynamics on other Enneagram Type 8s

This episode is perfect for anyone looking to better understand their Type 2 and Type 8 teammates.
 

Connect with the panel over on Linkedin:

Sarah Coyle , Donor Relations Officer II, Champions Program Manager, has been working for Cincinnati Children’s for almost 5 years and has the honor of working with families who want to get involved and share their stories to encourage hospital support. 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/saracoyle/


Hanna Firestone, Donor Relations Officer I, Special Events,  started at Cincinnati Children’s in June of 2022 where she is instrumental in executing fundraising events for the hospital.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannafirestone/

Julie  Spendal, Donor Relations Officer II, Annual Giving,  helps donors connect to the community, as well as raise funds and awareness for kids and families in need.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-spendal-322818a3/

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Not sure what your Enneagram type is yet, but want to?

🎙️Listen to the episode walking you through how to find your type with 2 questions:
https://www.enneagrammba.com/blog/enneagramtest

💖 Use the power of the Enneagram in your romantic relationship inside The Compatible Couple™ experience with Coach Natalia
https://www.enneagrammba.com/compatiblecouple

✏️ Get an overview of all nine types inside the Understanding People at Work Cheat Sheet 
https://www.enneagrammba.com/cheatsheet

🏆 Begin the process of becoming a Dream Team Certified Workplace: https://www.enneagrammba.com/enneagram-certified-workplace

🗓️ Book an Enneagram Workshop for your team retreat at work:
https://www.enneagrammba.com/enneagram-team-workshops

✏️ Get an overview of all nine types inside the Understanding People at Work Cheat Sheet
https://www.enneagrammba.com/cheatsheet

Chapters

• 0:01 How They Landed on Their Enneagram Types
• 8:05 Strengths of a Type 8 at Work
• 13:01 Mistyping Between a Type 2 and Type 8
• 17:54 Navigating Boundaries and Being Misinterpreted
• 21:47 Asking for Help as a Type 8
• 33:23 Gender Dynamics and Type Eight Personalities
• 37:49 What Type 2's Want Type 8's to Know About Working Together
• 42:44 The Benefit of Knowing Your Teammates' Type
• 49:09 What Type 8's Want Type 2's to Know About Working Together

Transcript

Speaker 1: You're listening to the Enneagram MBA podcast, a show about understanding people at work, including yourself. I'm your host, Sarah Wallace, and I'm excited to be diving into this week's episode with you. Well, welcome back to another episode here on the Enneagram MBA podcast. I always say this I feel like, because it's true for different reasons, but I'm really excited and this is going to be another fun interview because we have a group and this group happens to work with each other on a regular basis. So I have some team members from the Cincinnati Children's Hospital group and today we are going to be hearing a little bit about how their types show up at work, but then also some of the relationship strengths and potential challenges of their types. So, welcome to the show We're going to go around I see Hannah at the top and we'll start with just a quick intro, so we kind of know what voice is who, and just a little bit about you. So, Hanna, kick us off. Yes, hi, sarah. 

Speaker 2: I'm super excited to be here. So I started at Children's probably about 10 months ago I think I am a type eight and working with my fellow type eight, Julie, So it's been really great just getting to know Julie and Sarah in the last 10 months and not only have we become like really good personal friends outside of work, but I feel like we work so well together in our different projects that we have to do with each other. Really excited to be here and just talk more about it. 

Speaker 1: And then what resonates with you about the eight. How did you know this is probably my type. 

Speaker 2: Yeah. So eight is interesting because I always thought I was a six and then we kind of did this test. I was like I don't know because Julie was one who said I don't know, i think you're an eight And I was like I don't know about it. So I took the test and I tied between I actually got tied between an eight and a two, so I float between, i guess, sarah and Julie. 

Speaker 2: But as I read the Eight, I think just one of the things that resonated the most with me was that you always want to show your strength and you never want people to see your weakness. And I think back to my childhood and just currently now, and it's weirdly like I hate starting new hobbies because I hate being bad at things. I don't want people to see me be bad at things. I always want people to be like she's the best at everything. So that was one of the things that really resonated me. And also the eights don't like to. They're very scared of being hurt emotionally and they use their physical strength to push that away. And I was like sounds like me, okay, and that's deep, yeah, yeah. 

Speaker 1: So thank you for thank you for being so vulnerable, because that is a very much a pillar of that type eight energy And, for clarity purposes, we're going to hear from her, but probably most of the time that you hear Sarah, we're talking about Sarah without an H. We got Sarah with an H, which is me Sarah without an H, and so that's we're going to. We're going to hear from, actually, sarah. Let's bring you in Sure. 

Speaker 3: Sarah, no H, sarah with an H. I love it, always the way to distinguish. So I have been a Cincinnati children's for about four and a half years now and I work with our grateful, patient families, which is amazing And everything Hannah said. Julie and Hannah and I work really closely together, as well as a few others with a few different types. But I have been a fan of the Enneagram for years and I have taken the test quite a few times over the years And without a doubt, i'm always a two. 

Speaker 3: I didn't know what that meant originally, but when I met somebody who was introducing it to me, she said I'm going to let you take the test, but I can already tell you're a two. So I have a very strong two tendencies. But it has been really eye opening to work with Hanna and Julie because we're obviously very different. But they have helped me to grow in a lot of ways which we can, which we can touch on. But I think the biggest thing for me with being a two that just was the aha was how much I love to help other people And I just I do it and I sometimes sacrifice myself more than I should, which I know is a big challenge with twos, but I truly love helping other people And so reading about that was just clicked, because I do that in my everyday life and just get great satisfaction out of it. So that is the biggest thing for me. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i'm so glad you said that My partner identifies as an Enneagram type two and he always says he loves to help people as well And it almost like learning about the Enneagram. It like gave him permission to kind of pursue that you know desire or just to feel good, and then it's also helpful to understand when it's going too far in one direction. So I love that you said that. Okay, so we have Hannah type eight, we have Sarah type two and then we have Julie coming in. Julie, tell us a little bit about your role, what type you identify with and what made you know that. Let you know that you were that type. Yeah. 

Speaker 4: So Julie Spendle Hi, i have been at Children's for five years now. Just about I came in right before Sarah did And I am absolutely an eight. Like there's never been a doubt. I am very much an eight. I've taken the test many times. 

Speaker 4: Like Sarah said, i've loved the Enneagram for years. My friends at work and my friends outside of it we all love it. So we have all really done deep dives into it And I really just am a tried and true eight. Like everything about it, i think, the biggest thing that does resonate with me. I certainly can connect to everything Hanna had already said, but for me the biggest thing is the idea of protecting. I'm very protective of myself but I'm really, really protective of the others around me, especially like my tribe, whether it's my family, my friends, the underdog very much. I catch myself doing that a lot. If I notice someone is being treated unfairly or I feel like they're just not getting the shot that they deserve, i immediately always try to step in and like see how I can help and protect them. So that is that's definitely, i think, my biggest like aha moment with the eight. 

Speaker 1: Oh, so good. Okay, i'm curious now to hear a little bit more specifically how you have seen that type play out in your. It can be in your career or in your specific role now, and I'd like for us first to look at the strengths. So you all, i know, are already familiar with this, but for our listeners who may just need a quick refresher, our type eights tend to be pretty direct, bold, tend to be pretty confident, action oriented. Let's go far, let's go fast. I always joke that the type eights motto is the Nike just do it. How have you seen some of that energy be a strength in your career or current role? Hannah, i'm going to volley it back to you to start. 

Speaker 2: All right, love it. I don't know if I said before, but I'm the one of the events officers at Cincinnati Children's, so I run our events and that's kind of what I've been doing in my career since I graduated. And it's funny because I look at my career and I also just look at like all of my schooling too And I see that eight and I see the person who always took charge of group projects, who always assigned out the tasks to everybody, who always kind of wanted to make sure everything was perfect before it was turned into the teacher for the grade. But going into my career, i think it's been really helpful One, because I actually in college, my degree was in graphic design and I switched over to events And I think my directness and just being able to go after what I want really helped me just like make that career jump, because I had absolutely zero, zero background in planning events or fundraising and a job opened up at my old company And I just kind of went to the director of development and I was like, hey, i know I have no experience in this, but would you hire me? And he was like Yeah, probably. So that was like, i think, a really great moment, just like leading to my current career And then just being an event planner. 

Speaker 2: You have to, as my boss says. He's like you're kind of the quarterback, where you're just your project managing and you're kind of making sure that everyone is doing what they need to do and staying on task. So I think the being direct, being organized, the let's do it, let's go get it attitude has really helped in just like keeping those events running and getting things going and just letting people know, hey, i need you to do this And you know they just do it. It's kind of nice that I sometimes don't have to, you know, i can just be really direct with people. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we're going to come back to that and just a minute about what you just said there. But, julie, i'm curious any of those qualities or any others that you would add as far as strength goes in your role and overall career? 

Speaker 4: Yeah, i agree with everything Hanna said. Project management, i do think, tends to be one of my biggest strengths, because I love a checklist, i love hitting all those deadlines, i love being able to move the project, move the ball forward And I'm really good at making that happen. I think another strength the directness, like Hannah was saying. You know the idea of efficiency, but even the protection side of things. Again, i just feel like you know when you're in these bigger group projects like I. 

Speaker 4: So for me, i'm a donor officer, so I work one-on-one with donors who like to give year over year And you know, with that I have to work with our events people. 

Speaker 4: I work with some of our doctors and physicians in the hospital And it's a lot of handling personalities, it's a lot of handling people's emotions And I am able to really tap into that protectiveness. 

Speaker 4: If I feel like my donor is not necessarily being protected in the way they need to, but then like also vice versa, if this donor is being really, you know, outlandish with their requests and demands in order for them, you know, to give us their support, i feel like I then protect our division or our doctors or things like that. So some people may be uncomfortable being put in the middle of things like that like you know, quote unquote confrontation but that doesn't bother me at all. I'm more than happy to have those kind of awkward, not necessarily always tense conversations, but the ones that people don't want to have, like I feel like I thrive in those moments Because to me I would rather us just get past it and be able to move forward and then celebrate the good work we're all doing together, rather than getting bogged down by the minutia of all of it and the to me unnecessary feelings of it were to other people and may feel necessary. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know that might be a. I will come back to Hannah if you want to, if you have anything to reply to this with. But you know, sometimes there is a lot of confusion around the eight and the two And initially they look so different when you read the descriptions. But I think that protector piece for some eights is really strong And I think that has to do with different reasons you know just other life factors But for some eights that is really strong and really present And I think that maybe adds to that confusion. Would what would you say that's true for you, hannah, or what do you think was kind of some of the influences that were were having you between the two and the eight initially? 

Speaker 2: I think that that's probably resonates with me. I think also one of the things that I'm about to get real deep on my theory. I think one of the things is I look at the basic fears of the both of those anyogram types, and the one for the eight is like being harmed or controlled by others And the one for the two is, I think it's like being unloved or like unworthy And like I feel both of those so deeply. So I think that's why I bounce between the two. And I think then, going back to what you said about like protectiveness, I think comes in in both of those situations where, like, I protect myself, I don't want to be harmed, I don't want to be controlled by other people, I don't want to do what other people tell me to do. But I also I think I protect other people because I want them to love me and I want to feel worthy. So if I protect them then like, obviously I'm worthy of their love, right? So I think that's why I bounce between the two. 

Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, thank you. Thank you for being vulnerable. I appreciate that. 

Speaker 2: I'm trying to bring out my two and not my two, you are. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i was like that's some growth right there. That is some growth, sarah. What about you? What are some of the strengths of the two? And for listeners, just a quick refresher you know 10, two, like you were saying Hannah, are striving to feel connected and being wanted and appreciated is important And some of their strengths that will come from that energy is this ability to be incredibly empathetic And great listeners, truly caring, wanting to help, like Sarah was was saying, tend to be on the more, maybe positive, side not always, but but maybe more than our eights. What do you see from that, sarah, or any other strengths that have played a part in your career and in your current role? 

Speaker 3: So my career history so far has all been in the nonprofit world And the way that I kind of came to that was because I'm a business. I was a business major and I was. I was on an HR track which also can kind of fit, but at the end of the day I knew that my motivation to be successful was going to be loving what I do and being able to make the biggest difference that I can and being connected to a mission, not because I, of course, i don't need any. I don't need any thank yous, i don't need any appreciation necessarily. I just love to do that And that's what makes me the happiest. And so I have been in a few different nonprofit roles And specifically the role I hold right now is working with our patient families, and so I'm connected to the mission every day. 

Speaker 3: I, like you just said, i'm a very empathetic person, i'm a very emotional person, touchy, feely. I just get to do that every day And it can have a lot of challenges, But it plays out in you know what I'm doing and makes a lot of sense. And just to tie it back to what Hannah and Julie were saying about the protector piece, because I hadn't really thought about this. I am not. I am a protector. I am not an assertive protector like the two of them are. 

Speaker 3: I care so much about my people in the exact same way, but it's so interesting how my protector comes out in an emotional way And it's it is not necessarily standing up for it's more just catering to the individuals, and I was just kind of thinking about that. That is the two of them we're talking because I am very similar in the type A I'm a, i'm a rule follower, i'm, i have lists, i have all of the same kind of stuff that plays out. But it's just so interesting. I think it's a little bit of a different motivation And for me it just solely ties to my emotions. 

Speaker 1: Sarah, what great insight. I love what you said. Standing up for may look a little bit different than catering to, which tends to be your, your preference there. So really, really interesting. Okay, i'm going to. I'm going to start with you, sarah, on kind of the flip side of this question, which is maybe potential challenges or obstacles that the type faces. From what you know about the two and of yourself, is there a specific challenge kind of that relates to the type two energy that you have seen consistently show up over the course of your career? 

Speaker 3: I get too invested. 

Speaker 3: I have trouble with my boundaries. Because of how much I care And because I am genuinely wanting to help other people, i will jump in quickly, but sometimes, when I shouldn't, when I it may not be the best for me personally. You know, someone stops by my desk hey, can you help with this? without hesitation. I'm so excited that they asked me to help. But then I'm stuck in something. Maybe it isn't the right fit for me, maybe it doesn't fit on my to-do list that day, but because I'm given the opportunity to do what I love to do it, it can affect me in a lot of ways. 

Speaker 3: And then, when, especially, i think back to some of my jobs, when I, you know, started and you want to start off on the right foot, you want to, you want to be a good team player, you want to get involved, so you're jumping in and I'm jumping in hard and fast, and then that's all that people know me as. 

Speaker 3: So then, down the road, when I'm able to readjust, think about what's best for me, they know that they can rely on me, which is wonderful. But then I'm able to do what I love to do. But then that boundary is really hard to shift back, because I can. They are expecting, understandably, that I'm there to do it all And I just know myself and thankfully have been able to better understand that And even though it hurts, i sometimes can say no. I can't say it all at once And I will say Julie and Hannah have helped me tremendously in that way because I know the eight is kind of my stress, but it's interesting because when I, when I have the eight tendencies, i do feel strong And I, when I'm able to maybe not in the moment, it's this it's obviously caused by stress in that moment, but looking back, it does allow me to learn how to set boundaries and learn how to say no and prioritize myself. So I think that's what really lacks and what is hard as a two is giving up yourself a lot. 

Speaker 1: Yes, and you know there was another fellow, an Iagram colleague of mine, her name is Hillary Kay and she was on the show a few weeks ago And she referred to this the arrows, stress arrow, growth arrow as resource points, and I love that. Just because of what you were saying, sarah, it's like, yes, you know I could look stressed out in this way, but also there's so many growth opportunities for me to blend with my two energy for me to really feel strong and grow as a person, as a professional. So I'm glad that you pointed that out, julie. What about you? What's a, what's a challenge of the eight that seems to consistently come up for you, or something that you've really been focused on growing through? 

Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say I think the biggest challenge I have noticed as an eight one is just being misinterpreted Or like just not given the benefit of the doubt a little bit, maybe as another way of putting it with like the directness And with the whole picture idea, because I am definitely somebody when we start a project I want to know what our end goal is before I can even begin to plan and like lay down tracks for a roadmap to get there. I want to know what's our overall mission, what are we hoping to achieve out of this? What does that look like? And I think that can be hard sometimes when other people maybe can't get there quite as fast as I'm trying to get there. And then that directness I think it's misinterpreted sometimes as like frustration and or annoyance, and that is certainly not the case at all. I think, just in general, eights tend to be misinterpreted to always be kind of on edge or wanting to always put up the boundaries. And while I love my boundaries, like Sarah said, i think what gets misunderstood is they're there for a reason And it's because we want to be able to work well with everybody else, because if we didn't have boundaries we would just plow through and try to just take it on ourselves. 

Speaker 4: Like, for instance, a couple of weeks ago I had to do a project and I was owning it because my team was really underwater with a bunch of other things And I needed help. But I didn't ask for help because I didn't want. I was trying to protect their time. I was trying to protect their work from home flexibility, protect their schedules They're already over, you know, they're crazy workloads. So I didn't ask for help, i took it on myself and I was starting to struggle. 

Speaker 4: So that's when I leaned into my two and I asked for help And it worked Like, obviously, like it worked out great. We were able to get the project done. It was wonderful. I immediately felt better. But it was really hard for me to ask for help with all of that because I didn't want to appear weak. Like Hannah said, i wanted to protect my friends and my colleagues of their work time, but I also did. But I was afraid that me pushing through would be misinterpreted as me being angry or upset with the situation at hand, when really that wasn't it. I was just trying to get it done. So that's a convoluted answer, but it kind of really all just like rolled up into one. But the biggest lesson I learned was help is okay. 

Speaker 1: Help is okay. Yes, well, i don't think you're alone with the misinterpretation challenge. That's something that I hear from other aides And you know. One example that we'll talk about sometimes is someone else is experiencing them as really angry, and then the eight is so confused because they are presenting as passionate in their minds. I'm curious, just as a follow-up question is there anything else that you have found helpful for other aides that might also be struggling with this to help get or be misinterpreted less? 

Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, because it's funny enough, our larger team has a lot of twos. We have a lot of twos on our team And I do think the biggest misinterpretation is the anger for passion. Absolutely, i know I, like Sarah, i've worked in nonprofit my entire career as well, because I love loving what I do And I love working towards a goal that's meaningful to me. And again, that passion I think does get rebranded or repackaged and delivered as anger to other people or frustration. I think for me I get a little like twinge when aides are always associated with the word anger, because I think frustration for me is a more accurate emotion of what I'm feeling, cause I'm not always immediately at anger, like there's a frustration point first and usually I can dial it back before I get to that anger point. So, being able to have those open dialogues with my colleagues if I notice we're starting to go down a road that's gonna lead to frustration on my end, their end, both ends I just try to have an open dialogue of this is how I like to get things done. 

Speaker 4: I'm usually a very direct person. I wanna be able to knock things off the list If you need more time or if you wanna chat through this some more. If you wanna workshop this some more, that's totally fine. I just wanna be able to like budget for that according to our timeframe, just all these things trying to. I think just having that open dialogue of what I need and then asking them what they need and finding that middle ground has been so helpful because they're not misinterpreting my need to keep the line moving forward And I'm not denying them the time they need to be able to brainstorm, to empathize ask me how my weekend was those type of things. So I think just being open about it and then owning it has been so helpful. 

Speaker 1: Great advice, Hannah. what about you? What's the challenge of the eight that you've seen show up? 

Speaker 2: I think one of my challenges I would agree with Julie the misinterpretation I feel like a lot of my life I feel like I'm labeled as like an aggressive person, which I don't necessarily love having the term aggressive be associated with me. And then I think another one of my challenges is kind of that vulnerability side and how, when we are going into what is it our disintegration point, we kind of just shut down and we just like retreat into ourselves And like that very much happened to me on Monday. We had a whole situation where everything was going wrong every step of the way And I was being just like very blunt with people and by also was just like shutting down. I remember I was like in the room at one point and I was just I feel like I was just disassociating, i was like staring off in the distance and like not really saying anything because I was so frustrated with the whole situation. And it was just funny. 

Speaker 2: One of our colleagues noticed and she looked at me and she was like do you like sushi? Do we need to go get some sushi, get a drink after this? So I think that can be hard too, because when you retreat in yourself and you pull away, it's not really helping solve the situation And luckily there were other people in the moment that were kind of helping solve the situation and suggesting ideas. But definitely wasn't my best moment and my best self of just like completely shutting down. And not because I also didn't want people, i didn't want to be seen as aggressive and angry, even though I was like very much inside. I pulled Julia aside into the hallway I said will you go to the bathroom with me? Because I knew that I could, like I could, vent to her and she would understand, because it wasn't. It wasn't. I didn't want to come off angry and aggressive to anybody else, but I knew that that's how it would come off And so I just shut down wasn't the best moment, but you know we're learning. 

Speaker 1: Yes, right, and we won't always do the right thing all the time, or whatever is the right thing anyway. So, yeah, and that can be very real, that's also very common for AIDs And that, like you were saying, that kind of arrow to the five, to kind of shut down, isolate. So I'm gonna jump to this one. Just because you had mentioned, you pulled Julie aside in the hallway the other day. I'm curious about the eight and eight working relationship Like. What is that dynamic? like And I think it was Mel from your group who prompted this question about what are some of the challenges and potential synergies or strengths with same types, because we talk so much about what to know, about working with all the other types, what about working with the same type? So I'm curious, and it doesn't have to be a specific person, but just what you know about the type A, energy. Where do you see potential clashes or challenges coming into play when we have two AIDs maybe working on a team together? 

Speaker 2: That is a great question. Luckily, julie and I have not run into any clashes yet with each other. I hope we never do, but I feel like I could potentially see like somewhere down the line. Julie and I are working on a project together And for some reason we're both on different sides of the best way to handle it And I could see us just really butting heads because we both think that we're right and know the best way to do something And we're both super stubborn And I could see that being very much a big way, that eight to a class with each other. And again, you're so passionate and that passion can come off as anger. 

Speaker 2: But I would say that I think the benefit of that is that even if we are maybe coming off as angry to other people, like they might look at me and Julie and be like they are really going at it And we might know that like it's not really as intense as people might think that it is. 

Speaker 4: That's really funny, i have to say. I love fellow AIDs. The three of us were just kind of chit chatting yesterday talking through some of your pre-interview questions, and we are just like. We love hanging out with other AIDs, like I could be in a room of other AIDs all day. It's funny. one of my best friends is also an AID and she very much is one And what we do what we call our eight chats, and Hannah and I have started doing them And it's what she did when she pulled me into the bathroom the other day So we could just have an unfiltered conversation where we can say exactly what we wanna say, the exact way we wanna say it, and not worry about it being misinterpreted or judged or things like that. 

Speaker 4: Because I know, for me I feel like I have to almost filter my thoughts before I can actually verbalize them, because not because I'm gonna be mean, like I don't wanna ever be mean, ever but I just wanna make sure that what I'm saying doesn't come across that way, and that can kind of be exhausting sometimes to always have to filter what I'm saying. 

Speaker 4: And so having another eight in the room while we made butt heads, like Hannah was saying, i think we would also resolve it really quickly because we would be able just to hash it out real fast, real direct, say our feelings, say what's happening, and then be able to move forward, and I bet that project would be done so efficiently and like three weeks ahead of time And it would probably be pretty much spotless. Yeah, i think it would be a little bit of a blessing and a curse, but more of a blessing because I think it would just be wonderful to be able just to like breathe a little bit more and not It's good to sound crazy, not always have to worry about other people's feelings which sounds terrible, because I always want to hold the space for other people's feelings But it's nice not to have to worry that what I'm saying is constantly misinterpreted. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i think that for other aides listening to this, they're going to be nodding along. I literally heard another eight sharing almost the exact same thing. It was exhausting She's the word exhausting to have to constantly filter before, she said because she didn't want to be offensive or hurtful in some way. I am curious. If you have thoughts on this, please share them. If not, that's okay, but I do wonder how much of an eight female thing that is versus like our eight males, thinking about that as much as hurting other people's feelings or filtering as much. I don't know that. I hear the eight guys talking about this as much, but that's not to say that that's not there, sarah great question. 

Speaker 4: Great question One of my brother's best friends, who I've grown up with. the last time I was home he was venting about a problem he was having with his father-in-law. I looked at him and I was like have you taken the any of room? He was like no, what is it? You have 15 minutes. Let me give you the test. He was an eight. He is the only man I've ever met who was an eight. 

Speaker 4: It was just really interesting now that I knew that that was who he was, i can able to identify him that way. He was not nearly as apologetic or as concerned about his delivery as much as I feel like I am on a day-to-day basis. Again, not because he was being mean, he really wasn't, it's just I think in general he just never has to worry about his tone. It didn't really resonate with him as much as it would, where I feel like, especially in the workplace, beyond just the basic level of respect. I think just women in general always have to watch their tone. Now that you bring it up, it's so interesting. I never thought about it in these terms, but I do have a fear of being labeled like the hysterical woman or I can't handle the heat. I'm never going to have a leadership role or things like that, because my passion is being misconstrued as anger. That's a really great question, over-emotional. 

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely So interesting to look at gender dynamics in terms of type eight. Because I feel like if you're looking at a type eight just a description like if we're doing stereotypical male female roles in society that we've all grown up with, you would look at an eight and I just don't think you would ever associate a lot of those qualities in a woman. So I feel like and because we are so growing up, we're so like it's ingrained in us to be emotional caregivers. So I do think that female eights have to just be way more filtered because we have that from just growing up in society as a woman of just well, i need to be careful because I don't want to. 

Speaker 2: Can I curse? I don't want to Like you, don't want to be the bitch. It's kind of like you know, for a man you're just a boss, but for a woman you're a bitch, like male eights are going to come off as just like he's just a confident guy who knows what he wants, and like we're going to come off, as you said, hysterical, bitchy women. I think that's just I would love. I think that'd be so interesting to explore. 

Speaker 4: It's another word that gets thrown out is intimidating and. 

Speaker 4: I have gotten that a lot as like kind of unsolicited feedback sometimes of like oh, aids, you guys are, you guys intimidate me. You're so intimidating And I wonder if a man would ever be called intimidating rather than confident, the way Hannah just said. I, you know, and it sounds like such a cliche, but like I do think it's absolutely true Like my passion can be misconstrued, not can't, is misconstrued as anger sometimes, and confidence is misconstrued as intimidation or confrontational, which is another big thing. That makes me then retreat and disintegrate into a five, like Hannah said, because I don't want to ever cross that line, or I don't want anyone to ever feel like I'm crossing that line. So I just I go to, i go silent instead of going violent, you know, and and it's, it's really hard, and then that gets misinterpreted, as you know well, she just doesn't care. Well, no, i'm holding back because I don't want to say anything that I would regret. 

Speaker 4: So and I just wonder it's exhausting, and I don't know if men ever actually think about that. 

Speaker 1: It's like the Taylor Swift song. 

Speaker 4: Oh man. 

Speaker 1: I know we have some Swifties listening to this. I don't know if you are. 

Speaker 4: You should have seen us the day the Taylor Swift tickets went out. We were all in the office, together, crying, together, trying to get tickets. 

Speaker 1: I feel that, yeah, it is interesting, and I actually I just had another Enneagram teacher on who was talking about how race and culture also show up and, just for the eight, specifically how the labels even within that So gender and socioeconomic class and all this other stuff kind of play into how that energy gets presented, and so it's so important to think about all these other things and not just rely on Enneagram textbook descriptions. It's a great starting point, but then also you know what else is going on, like you're saying, gender, race, culture, all this other stuff. So, sarah, i'm going to bring you in and I'm curious as a two what you see as potential challenges, not necessarily Julie or Hannah, but maybe somebody with and it can be, if that's easier to talk about. 

Speaker 2: It can be, sarah, it can be it, it can be them. 

Speaker 3: But somebody with a type eight, energy, what might be challenging for you as a type eight, type two I think the biggest thing is it's going to take me a minute to like you or be around, want to be around you, or and it's only because if I don't know you personally and that's your energy, is how you approach things, that's how you do things, that's not how my brain computes it and I am going to take it personally, regardless of the intention or I'm going to think I'm there's no way I'm going to get connected to that person or we're just going to clearly just we're going to be efficient, we're going to get our work done. I will say, moving a little bit to the strength side of it, i feel like I can be my most productive self and most efficient self if I'm talking to and working with an eight, because it holds me accountable, it's moving me along, but it's going to take some time. And I am sure I have encountered other eights in my life. One of my best friends is an eight and we've only recently learned that and it makes a lot of sense. But I am surrounded in my personal life too by a lot of twos. So my world is soft, my world is this fluffy, emotional place and so, getting to know Julie and Hannah I became, and now, knowing them so well and having them as two of my closest friends I am, i feel like I can be my better self when I am with them, because they are helping me to be more confident, more direct, more efficient, whatever that looks like. 

Speaker 3: But the biggest thing is it's going to take time And if I don't ever reach that point of connection with you, we might. We might work okay together, but I'm not going to necessarily enjoy it. But if I can do what I need to do, which is make the emotional connection, then I can move forward and have a successful relationship with eights. But it's been very interesting having Julie and I have worked together the whole time I have been at Children's and then having Hannah. I feel like because Julie and I worked to get there, i could jump in a lot quicker with Hannah, and it was great to have multiple perspectives as an eight or having them both be eights, so it's been pretty cool. 

Speaker 1: I love that you said that. I also think there's going to be some twos nodding along with the way that you just put that with you, because that sounds very common as well. Some common feedback. Now I want to. I want to follow up with you, sarah, on the two and two, type two and type two working dynamic. It sounds like you have a lot of twos in your life. I do know that as a team, as a department, there are also a lot of twos. What are maybe some challenges that you have experienced or could see happening between two type twos working together? 

Speaker 3: We're going to go round and round and round in circles, because neither of us want to hurt each other's feeling, neither of us wants to put something on the other person's plate, neither of us want to take charge. It is a comfort when you're talking to a two You mentioned Mel and like that's a perfect example in my world. Mel and I can just look at each other and we're like we get it, just get it. When you're surrounded by the people that just get it, it's amazing. We can work together. But it's going to take us a little longer. We're going to do the whole like how are you? How was your weekend? We're going to do the deep dive before we get to the work. 

Speaker 3: I wouldn't say our efficiency isn't there. It just takes a little bit longer than when two eighths work together. They're boom, boom, boom, get it done. We have to cover all of our bases before we get there. I also think, looking at the two pool in our office, we're all which I would say this with every single type, with multiples in our office, we're all slightly different. There is the adjustment piece too. When you're talking to someone, it's so nice to know, now that we've done so much work in our office, what type they are because you can instantly understand. But it is interesting to see, even if it is a fellow two, how we could still have two totally different approaches to what we're doing, or ways of thinking or ways of talking, but at our core we are motivated the same, we understand each other and we can get there. 

Speaker 1: Love that. Any other strengths that are jumping out at you with having multiple twos in a room. 

Speaker 3: I think it just it shows when the passion is there And we, you know we can we put that as one of our top requirements in the work that we're getting done. 

Speaker 3: We're wanting to show how much we care about it. And when there's multiple twos, like, for example, hannah's the project that we were working on on Monday, that was, was the there were a lot of twos in the room, so it became efficient because there were all these helpers that, thankfully, hannah knew who they were And like, at one point Hannah turned to me and she's like, can you take that to my desk? And she even said, as we were talking the other day she's like I knew I could turn to you and just ask you to do something. I could say it directly because you know me and that's how I'm gonna say it. You're not gonna take offense, you're gonna be thrilled to help. I was ecstatic. I had a job, i knew I could help Hannah, i could go do what I needed to do. And so I think in the workplace, having twos, especially in our industry, it it can be really beneficial, but we need the eights to move us along. 

Speaker 1: Well said. Okay, i have one more specific question for Hannah and Julie and it's kind of it's the reverse of what we've been talking about. So, with your eight energy, what do you find either frustrating or challenging Again, not necessarily about Sarah, but just kind of that two energy that you have run up against or could see running up against. that would be hard. 

Speaker 4: What I think I've noticed is I have a hard time when we have agreed, you know, as a group, with a two, on a strategy for a project or you know whatever else, whatever we're working on, and we start moving down the road on that strategy, i wanna go, i want to go and execute it. We have thought it through, i'm confident. We thought it through It's gonna be great, still leaving room for pivoting, of course, cause you have to have some flexibility, no matter what you do. But then if we have to stop because you wanna completely re-strategize, it's gonna drive me up a wall. Or you know, we're so close to finishing and you're like I had an idea. What if? well, let's just talk this through, let's try to figure that. What if we added this? Or what if we just changed this? 

Speaker 4: And it's really hard for me to continue forward and not get frustrated because we already have it set. It's gonna be great. I want trust, the process, it's gonna be phenomenal. So that part can be hard When I'm already chugging along. We already have this goal in mind and it's a fantastic goal, and then we're just constantly poking holes in it as we're going along. It can be incredibly frustrating. We will get there. I am gonna be open to it And, you know, if it makes the project better, i'm absolutely willing to talk through it and stuff. But sometimes if I feel like we're just exploring stuff for the sake of exploring it, that can be incredibly challenging for me to have to, like, maintain a poker face, so that part's kind of hard for me. 

Speaker 1: I'm imagining a seven jumping in with. I got a new idea, as you said too. 

Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, and I'm all for. You know, i love a brainstorm, i love creativity, i love all of it. But I think you know, once we hit a strategy and we have this idea in mind, like let's just go for it, let's just go do it, let's give it a try, we're not gonna know if it works unless we try. And so when people are constantly pumping the brakes, it's really hard. 

Speaker 1: I get that. That's real. That's real. Hannah, what about you? 

Speaker 2: For me it's niceties and handholding. 

Speaker 2: And it's nice, it is in terms of like sometimes I can get really frustrated when it's like the middle of the work day you know it's like 1 pm, we've all been working together already And I get like the hi, how are you? I'm like, i'm fine, like obviously you need something for work, like can you just tell me what you need? I don't, we don't need to do a whole rig of moral. How is everybody Like? I'm also like if I'm really in something and I'm like working through something like I don't want to take, like I love, i love having chit chats. I love going over to Sarah's office and just sitting down and talking about not work stuff. But when I know someone is reaching out to me about work things, i just want you to ask me the question Like we're all we're working. You can just ask me the question We don't need to go through all of that. And then the Handholding and Sarah, i want you to know that this is not about you, so don't. 

Speaker 2: It's OK I would take no offense, safe space. Sometimes I can get really frustrated because something that I've been working on as an eight is to let go of my control, and that is something I've had to do coming to a bigger organization like Children's, because at my last job I there were four people in my department. I had a hand on everything. I was doing everything for my events. Here I have this wonderful group of people that helps me with things. But one of the things I can be frustrating is we've talked through the plan, kind of like what Julie is saying We've talked through the plan, we have a plan. 

Speaker 2: Here's your task, go do it. Here's your task, go do it. Here's your task, go do it. And then sometimes, like I feel like, because twos are so, they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, they don't want to like take control when they shouldn't, and sometimes I want them to, i want to be, can you just own your part and just do? I just want you to do it, just, please go do it. So those are for you. It's so true. 

Speaker 4: It's so true, though. 

Speaker 2: It's so true, yeah, it's a little, a little hard sometimes, because I just want to be like why do I have to hold your hand through this? It's a pretty easy task to do, So I don't you know isn't. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting And it it becomes funny later, sometimes, like in these moments, very frustrating, but then looking back on it it's like oh, i got. You know you can laugh about that. But that is good to know. And that's one of my favorite things about the Enneagram is knowing how, what my, my impact be on someone else And then what shifts might I need to make as I'm working with this person, not to change myself, but just to have a better, you know, productive and pleasant working relationship. I'm curious, before we call this episode complete, i would love to hear And Sarah, i'll start with you, i see you over there at the bottom What just the Enneagram in general, what? what's one benefit that has really impacted your life in general or the way that you show up at work? 

Speaker 3: I think for me, in speaking as a two because I can get my feelings hurt because I'm overthinking, because I want to help when I'm needed That it is really important for me to understand where someone else is coming from, to help me to process whether it be my actions or my feelings with it, And so when I know what someone's type is, right off the bat, I could. It softens everything. If I, you know, if I'm talking to someone and I know they're an eight, I'm prepared for the way that they're going to be speaking to me And I then don't have to do my whole roundabout overthinking Why are they talking to me this way? Why aren't they? you know, X, Y, Z And it is just in my professional and personal life has helped me so much And I think it's really cool. 

Speaker 3: There was already a group of us in the office who loved and talked about the Enneagram frequently And we, you know, are constantly like oh yeah, that makes sense, You're a whatever, like it just clicks. But now that we've done it as a whole office, it just helps. You're sending an email. You know maybe how you want, how I want to reframe what I'm going to say because I'm speaking to someone else who may not understand where I'm coming from, And so you can just jump to that, And I think that helps me so much in both my professional and personal life every day. 

Speaker 1: So well said, so well said. Julie, what about you? 

Speaker 4: For me, the biggest thing that I have just always loved about the Enneagram over these other you know self assessments like Myers-Briggs or disk or things like that I've done all of those in my previous jobs is I just feel like the Enneagram really digs to the core because it really focuses on motivations rather than you know what are your preferences, and I think that's just such a big difference. You know the way Sarah was talking about how she knows how to immediately, you know, be able to identify and understand the other person. I feel the same way with the motivations. If I'm talking to a two and I am getting annoyed because I feel like they're trying to take things away from me so I'm not in control anymore, i know. No, there are two. They want to help because they genuinely love to help and that's and that's the gift they're giving me right now. Their gift is that they want to help me And I think just understanding that motivation from the get go is just so much. 

Speaker 4: It makes it faster and easier for me to get out of my head, like Sarah was saying, and into the moment we're in and be like Oh yeah, i can give you some control, i can give you some of these tasks. That's fine. It's not because you want to prove that I'm weak or that I can't handle what I'm doing. It's because you see, i'm having a hard time and you genuinely, genuinely want to make my time easier. So if you didn't have that, if you didn't understand that motivation, i don't think I'd be able to with I wouldn't be able to get there. So that's what I just really love about the underground I feel like you just have an instant deeper understanding of the other person you're working with or talking with. 

Speaker 1: I said to Julie I want to at least need to be any of your commercials. I'm going to make any of your commercials, Hannah, what about? what about you? What have you? what's the benefit you've gotten from the Enneagram? 

Speaker 2: You know, i will say one of the huge benefits I've gotten actually has been mostly my personal life but we won't get too deep into that but just kind of working with my vulnerability and my control. 

Speaker 2: But in work situations, i think pretty similar to what Sarah and Julie said of just knowing how to how to act with other people, and I think one of the things that I feel like I've noticed I've done is not necessarily more about myself but recognizing other people and their types, like with Sarah, for instance. I know she's a type of person that I'm not going to say yes to. I know she's going to say yes to things that she doesn't necessarily want to say yes to And I very much try to be like aware of that. instead of I don't, like I don't want to take advantage of her willingness to like always help and I feel like I ask her like probably like seven to seven times if I ask her to help me something, like are you sure you have like the time the capability band with to help me with this right now? or like sometimes I get protective of her and I look at her and I go Sarah, do you actually want to do this? 

Speaker 3: like I don't want to be like no, actually I don't. 

Speaker 2: Like Julie said, like just have like knowing other aids and knowing that I can be a safe space for Julie and she can be a safe space for me in terms of having like unfiltered conversations, because we just got to get it out, and not just knowing other people and being able to see those things and make sure that I'm not taking advantage of maybe any of their weaknesses and that I'm able to be there for them in the way they need me to be. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, i love this. This is a great way to end this, because we talk about using the Enneagram a lot and how to work better with each other, and I think the there's a layer underneath that about supporting each other And with that support you create a really caring work atmosphere, create these relationships where you don't have to go be best friends outside of work, but at least when you come in like you feel so safe and and cared for and then what? you know, what an amazing place to work. That then allows you to have more creativity, allows you to be yourself more to like, step into your potential in that role. Because you know these people have my back, they understand me. We may not always agree, but they understand, and so I really love that. 

Speaker 1: You said that. I think it's going to be people listening that were like, oh my gosh, hannah was in my head, or Sarah or Julie I felt like I would have could have said that. So I want to make sure that we get your LinkedIn profile, so if anybody wants to send you a message, i want to send you and just say hello, fellow eight here. They can do that And with that, i appreciate you taking the time out of your work day to have this conversation. It's been fun to get to know you and it's really been fun to have this conversation, so I appreciate all three of you for making time for this. Thank you, this is awesome. Yeah, this has been so fun. 

Speaker 3: We love it. We've been so excited. 

Speaker 4: I have been so excited to say we could talk to this for the two hours. Yeah, we could, we can make this. 

Speaker 1: Yeah, a whole half day podcast episode, because, yeah, i got. I got more questions too, of course, but this is everyone to do around to let us know, say I was just thinking because I'm going to be out there in a few weeks talking about stress and change and I'm like, oh my gosh, we get really digging into stress and change more about each of these types. 

Speaker 1: So we you might you might be hearing from them again in the future, but, as I always say, our guests love it and it is just fun to connect with fellow, whether it's your type or just fellow in your game enthusiast. So please take the time, get connected with them, find them over on LinkedIn and with that, thank you so much for being here and we'll see you back next week, when I'm not planning for the next episode or getting to interview the next podcast guest, i'm probably out doing an Enneagram team training or a group workshop experience, because while Enneagram MBA is a podcast, it is also a team training company, which means, whether you have a team of four or 40 or are planning an event for 400 people, there is an experience that is waiting to be created just for you and your team or organization or event, and I'm going to invite you to start that process over at Enneagram MBA dot com, where you'll be able to check out some of the initial ideas and options and then reach out, to get in touch to start planning your own.